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A Flop by Any Other Name

After Manu Ginobili took two charges in the 4th quarter against the Pistons, a debate on flopping started in the comments. It involved both Spurs and Pistons fans and it was friendly and illuminating for the most part. Flopping is a sensitive issue for NBA fans, as we've all been on the wrong side of a call. I've been meaning to write something on the subject for a long while now, and hearing everybody's opinion was just the stimulus I needed to get it done. Here are my thoughts.

Star-divide

I should start by saying that the following aims to address flops on defense, since everybody flops on offense one way or the other. Every single player that drives to the basket or posts up flails his arms and screams like he was getting kicked in the crotch. Whether it's the classic "EHH" or "AND-1", everybody does it so I won't explore that any further. With that out of the way...

Not all flops are equal

When the slightest incidental contact (or no contact at all) is exaggerated to ridiculous proportions in order fool the ref into blowing the whistle, that's simply indefensible. It's cheating, as close as you can get to it without going over the line. There's no reason for doing it other than to get a cheap call and it should be nothing but condemned even if it's one of your favorite guys that's doing it.

Chris Bosh Flop (Worst NBA flop ever) (via webtechdude)

When a guy gets position by moving his feet, takes the contact and exaggerates what is an offensive foul just to make the ref notice, that's a good basketball play. It doesn't matter that the contact is not hard enough to make the player fall; it matters that it was an offensive foul and the ref made the right call. If players where not allowed to do that, penetrating guards would use their off arm to push away and post players would just shove their shoulders into defenders chests. In those situations, the flop is the only way for defenders to make the ref notice the illegal play, nothing more and nothing less.

Greg Oden Offensive Foul on Marc Gasol (Flop) (via FreeOden52)

Flops are incredibly irritating for the team on the wrong side of the call

As Spurs fans we've been lucky to have some great floppers (Bowen, Manu, Horry and Oberto come to mind), but we've also been in the receiving end of an offensive foul call and it just sucks. That's why I understand why opposing fans hate some of our players and even our team and why it's understandable that we complain about it too, even if the ref made the right call. There's something about flopping, especially the theatrical, I've-just-been-shot kind, that rubs most fans the wrong way and I don't see that changing anytime soon. We should take that into account when we scoff at fans of other teams for hating on one of our players. Manu in particular is an easy target because of his histrionics when flopping and because he is not American, which leads me to my next point...

Flopping has been around for decades, is not going to ruin the game and has not been introduced by European players that come from soccer countries.

Watch this clip of Red Auerbach complaining about flopping in all it's "get off my lawn!" glory. That's from the 70s. Auerbach was bitching about how flopping was ruining the league four decades ago and as far as I know, right now basketball is one of the most popular sports in the world; one of the most entertaining spectacles around with an amazing level of play and displays of athletic ability. Nostalgia is a very powerful and often misguided emotion, so it's not surprising that people still reminisce about the good ol' days without realizing that the game has actually improved over the years and that some of the things they identify with today's game (flopping, supertars forcing their way out of teams, only a handful of real contenders) were present back then, too.

The whole "flopping is ruining the league, as silly as it is, is not the most worrisome part of the flopping debate; that would be the xenophobic undertones that are often present. Carlos Morales did a good job of discussing this in an article he wrote for ESPN Latin America, one that was later translated and posted on ESPN and is currently being plagiarized by me. You should read the whole thing because it's really thought provoking.

I can't count how many comments from fans and articles from writers associate flopping with international players. It's almost impossible for someone to write an article about Manu or Anderson Varejao without mentioning that they flop, with some people even defining them by that aspect of their games. Yet those mentions are nowhere to be found when someone is discussing Chris Paul or Paul Pierce. People immediately mention soccer in their diatribes against flopping, not taking into account that it's doubtful that a guy like Derek Fisher picked up his flopping habits from his exposure to that sport. While it's true that international players seem less afraid of the stigma that some Americans assign to flopping, namely a lack of masculinity, and they seem to have a certain distinctive flair when they do it, it is ridiculous and frankly xenophobic to claim that international players are the ones that introduced it into the league or that flopping has increased and become ubiquitous with the influx of non-American players. That clip is from the 70s, an era where the NBA was mostly comprised of American players, and Auerbach thought it was a big enough problem then to get a few players and a former ref to make a video about it, for crying out loud.

Whether its inadvertent or not, it's hard to deny that at least some degree of xenophobia is in play, especially when you consider that the people who complain about Euros flopping are usually the same who think flopping is ruining the game, making it easy to conclude that they believe, by the transitive property, that international players are ruining the game.

I think the discourse has to change when discussing flops. If it's one of those egregious ones where there's no contact, feel free to launch into a rant against the officials and curse the player's name, but if it's just a smart play by the defensive player we should accept it for what it is and remind ourselves that for as many calls that go against us because of flopping, there will be an equal amount that go our way. And for my sanity, please stop immediately relating it to soccer.

5 recs  |  39 comments

Comments

Completely agree.
I play basketball and consider myself a defensive player.
Whenever I see someone driving to the rim, I try to get in position. If I feel that guy hitting me, I fall to the ground.
That’s just good defense.

Same.

I used to play center in high school and my freshman year of college and I tried it only once, and I got run over, got called for the blocking foul and it was a 3 point play. Bad memories. I just went for the block or the hard foul after that :D

I am 100% in favor of the hard foul. It’s very rare for the charge to be called to begin with- the stars have to align pretty much perfectly. Given the degree of difficulty (and the fact that my heavy-set low center of gravity frame makes it difficult for people to naturally knock me over) I’ve always preferred knocking them on their ass. One or two hard fouls a game and people start hesitating.

It’s kind of a dying art, isn’t it? Even come playoff time, I am not seeing that kind of refusal to allow the lay-up that was the rule when I was a kid. Maybe pro players are more conscious of not wanting to injure each other? Maybe that style is just not being taught at the lower levels?

The fines and repercussions are too severe for hard fouls in today’s game. Stern doesn’t want his superstars to get injured (rightfully so) and also doesn’t want the physicality to get out of control (also understandable given how strong and fast everyone is).

The thing is, if the defender is in position with feet set and the offensive player runs over him, that’s an offensive foul, I don’t think falling or getting knocked down is part of the condition for it to be an offensive foul. The referees are the ones encouraging flopping!

I think that’s definitely part of it. Players know they are not getting a call unless they fall, so they flop.

Well written, E5.

Great post, Edg. I missed the whole conversation about flopping, but there is a difference between normal flopping and egregious flopping. Good players know the difference and use flopping to their advantage.

+1000 for you, E5 :)

Excellent post Edg5.

Good post!

Matt Bonners favorite flop:

Rock, you do!

About the clips. Was there a foul called for Bosh? It’s obviously a flop, but did it result in a foul being called? Neither of the officials pictured looks like he is about to blow his whistle. On the second clip, I don’t have a problem with this call, and I would not call that a flop. Gasol got position, Oden initiated the contact. It’s just a foul. This is no different from any other type of foul. Contact gets made on every single play of every game, and sometimes the contact results in a whistle, and sometimes no foul is called. Meh. It’s part of the game. Kobe Bryant and Dwayne Wade are very good at “selling” the contact when they are putting up a shot, and I don’t hear anybody complaining about the unfairness of it all. Folks just have a bias against defense, in my as always humble opinion. But of course I am a Bruce Bowen fan, and my wife and I have bought tickets to see the Spurs the night his jersey gets raised to the rafter, so this is just the kind of thing a fellow like me would say.

OK, that’s my last damn rant on this topic!!!

I think you missed the point about that Gasol-Oden video

I think it’s here to show what the most obvious foul would look like.
Because Gasol didn’t have to fall, he is strong enough to stay up, but he chose not to.
He did so to ensure he’’ll get the call. If he hadn’t would he still get the call? doubt it.

That’s why most flops are not so at all, Manu like others only sell what they think they should sell. That’s why you rarely see a flopper over-play his hand, because they do it when it’s justifiable

I mostly just have a bias against who ever is playing the Pistons that night. :)

I still say the biggest problem with flopping is that the refs fall for it. Players will continue to exaggerate the contact as long as refs will continue giving them the benefit of the doubt.

It’s part of the game, it always has been, and always will. So, I give it no thought. Like Pop refusing to blame refs, even when THEY ARE TO BLAME!!

At any rate, enjoy another aspect of Manu’s game!

I wish jumping that high over the rim was still an aspect of Manu’s game.

Take it back. Now.

Look at that clip again, Bella. His eyes are even with the basket. When was the last time you saw that?

(Nice to see you, by the way.)

Wait until he’s back in shape and playing his game before you make that assertion. We haven’t seen a full strength Manu this season.

Right back at ya, slick.

I LOVED this.
Over the years (and even this season) I have seen numerous ridiculous and eggregious flops, mostly from north american players (like the one Bosh did). And the thing that irks about the whole deal is that Manu NEVER flops like that, he never flops when there wasnt a legitimate foul. That’s the reason that yes…he is a flopper, but he is a “good” one, he is not cheating.
Another thing: I dont get pissed with the refs or the rules when an offensive foul is called against the spurs. If it was the right call (the defender had good position, didnt move) I get pissed at OUR player for making a stupid play and comitting an offensive foul. I dont care if the defender exagerated contact or not. If it was the right call, it was the right call, and the player attacking is the stupid for barreling into the paint withouth purpose.

For me Chris Paul is the worst flopper ever. Okay, maybe it’s a toss up between him and Derek Fisher.

There is only one way to settle that: someone needs to put together a flop-off video compilation of those two. My money is on Paul.

Manu NEVER flops like that, he never flops when there wasnt a legitimate foul.

I’ve seen him do it. Now, maybe it’s because he was anticipating contact that never arrived, but I’ve seen him fall down without anything but the slightest provocation. He doesn’t do it often, but it happens. It pains me to say it but it happens.

You lie.

You’re right. He’s perfect. These recent criticisms were a blatant attempt on my part to draw you out of your self-imposed boycott of PtR.

Please come back, Bella. For real. Don’t make me force myself to say bad things about Manu against my will in order to see your wonderful comments back on the site.

It’s not a boycott… I’ve been busy, Yo.

Great Job Edg5

I hate when people think that the spurs are the only one to Flop

Many players in all the teams in the NBA Flop including Shaq

Here is the absolute best reply I’ve seen on this subject. Expectedly, it’s from a DBB commenter.

I can't speak for everyone

But flopping pisses me off as much when Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett do it as when Sideshow Bob and Manu do it.

I’m not interested in formulating some sort of predictor for why flops occur more with some players than others. Individual players get individual reputations based on past actions. The Pistons have now, and have had in the past, international players who don’t flop enough to get a reputation.

Jonas Jerebko takes, and creates, a lot of contact on the court. If he flops (haven’t seen it yet, but we may at some point) it won’t be because he’s from Sweden. If he does it enough, he’ll be known as a flopper.

The International Players Flop argument is weak and uninformed. Some international players flop regularly. Some domestic players flop regularly. I hate them all equally.

You don’t suspend players because officials can’t do their job right: You suspend the officials.

It is absolutely not the players’ job to make the officials’ jobs easier. In fact, if there is a flaw in the system of officiating and players’ aren’t taking advantage of it, then they aren’t doing their job.

-Shinons

The rest is here, it’s gorgeous.

The guys who do it well, take a charge. Those who don’t flop.

Manu Ginobili takes a charge.

Every time. Without fail. End of discussion.

You are correct.

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