Tonight, the Spurs took a trip to the Palace of Auburn Hills to play a Detroit team that, statistically, is at best the third worst team in the league. San Antonio, apparently befuddled by the early start time, waited until about five minutes left in the first quarter to show up. They took a lead in to the second quarter, and controlled the game, keeping the Pistons at Kawhi Leonard's arms length throughout...until the fourth quarter. Ben Wallace, in what he says is his last season, dominated everything and everyone.
In my preview for Detroit Bad Boys, I wrote that:
Duncan, for those of you who haven't been following too closely, is having a solid stretch of games, putting up several double doubles over the past few weeks- in under 30 minutes of play. He is still the most efficient player in basketball. He has, though, lost most of his power moves and is more of a finesse and jump shooting player now. Moose is going to have his hands full, but I'm especially curious to see how this plays out. On the other end, Duncan will also have his hands full. No sugarcoat- Moose is probably the best young big in the league and one of my current favorite non-Spurs.
Monroe had a bad game, in large part because of Tim Duncan. Duncan, and you can argue with me all you want about this, is still one of the 5 best bigs in the league right now. Monroe, though, is the future- he is easily the most complete PF/C under the age of 25. I'd take him and his style of play, and his attitude, over Dwight Howard and Andrew Bynum anyday. Duncan frustrated him at every turn, although Monroe did the same to Duncan for awhile. Duncan winning this matchup essentially won us the game, because if Monroe had a stat line anywhere near his averages, Detroit likely would have stole this one.
Other than that, I'm not sure what to take away from this game. Manu Ginobili is still playing his way back into shape, and while his shot looks horrible right now (to be expected) he finished with 7 assists, a block, and two key flops that basically won the game for the Spurs. I hate flopping, but I hate it significantly less when:
So I'm willing to overlook it. The story of the game, though was Ben Wallace. Recently benched in favor of starting Jason Maxiell, Ben Wallace showed tonight why he's a likely (and should be) Hall of Famer. He hit his 7th career three pointer to bring the Pistons to within striking distance, then the next trip down the floor came up with a save as he was flying out of bounds that led to a Pistons bucket, that, if I'm not mistaken, gave them their first lead since the first quarter. Tonight's game marked game number 1054 for Big Ben. An impressive but seemingly unremarkable total until you consider that Wallace was undrafted out of college, and tonight he passed former Spur Avery Johnson for most games played by an undrafted player. He is the type of player every team wishes they had, and every young player should look up to. Unconcerned with stats, excellent one on one and help defender, focuses on doing the dirty work and, even though he's rarely if ever been more than the 5th option on offense, reportedly practices his shot more than anyone else on the Pistons. Consummate professional is an understatement. Since we only play Detroit once this year, this was his final game against the Spurs, and he went out in style. It may be unusual (even potentially frowned upon) to write so much about a non-Spur in a recap, but he earned it with his overall level of play, especially sense the only Spur that matched it consistently all night was Tim Duncan.
Unstoppable Force...meet Immovable Object
via cmsimg.freep.com
Some quick hitters, followed by three stars: If shooting slumps are contagious, we need to quarantine Danny Green and keep him away from Gary Neal. Tonight was not a good night for either of them shooting- although Green continues to do an excellent job impacting the game with his defense and passing. I realize Neal had more assists tonight, but Green seems to make smarter plays with the ball more often than not. Kawhi Leonard continued his hot streak, *and* continues to impact the game defensively. 2-3 from 3, 4-6 overall, 2 steals, a block, and a nice swoop and scoop finger roll off the glass that earned him an and-1. He continues to impress me with not only his athleticism and aggressiveness, but also his intelligence and ability to fit in the system. Richard Jefferson needs to learn a few things from him about that.
3: Kawhi Leonard
2B. Ben Wallace- I don't care that he doesn't play for us. Dude's a baller and single handedly kept this game close.
2A. Manu Ginobili- he is who he is.
1. Tim Duncan
Next up, the Toronto Raptors.
5 recs | 91 comments
Green just had a good shooting game against the Nets. It looks like Neal did survive Green’s previous bad games, until today.
RJ did exactly what we’d want from this game. I agree with Tim Griffin’s take for this game.
He’s had a slump, and has fallen off, but then had some key moments in this game…
He was aggressive and also made his 4 free throws.
grego21 - February 15, 2012
Source: MySa
grego21 - February 15, 2012
I mostly agree. My problem is that Kawhi is doing all the right things. He’s taking shots Jefferson is passing up, attacking the basket both for points and for rebounds. I was about to go full out rant on RJ while watching the game…and then he hit that three. I’m still not on the “amnesty/trade RJ” bandwagon, but he needs to be more consistently aggressive, like Kawhi. That’s my one and only complaint about this recent stretch.
SpursfanSteve - February 15, 2012
Oh, I’m definitely not going to protect his last 5-8 games, but he definitely looked a lot more active/aggressive in this game. This game serves to show more of what he is.
Kawhi is something special. That much is true, but he’s still a rookie and his games have been up and down as well. In no way am I saying RJ shouldn’t be better, but I can’t say Kawhi has been bringing this every game. This is why Pop has sat him more often recently. He’s responded recently, so it looks like it’s working. That and Spurs finally had 2 practices…
grego21 - February 15, 2012
Ben Wallace was a cancer with the Bulls.
biolb - February 15, 2012
so so so true….people seem to forget that.
Chilai - February 15, 2012
who cares about the Bulls?
Kondor - February 15, 2012
He made a mistake by ever leaving Detroit. I’m not justifying his behavior with the Bulls, but aside from his leaving he’s been the quintessential Piston.
SpursfanSteve - February 15, 2012
yeah, but that takes away from his suposed “profesionalism”…dude was a complete cancer, he really made chicago a worse team to the point that the bulls traded him for peanus just one year and a half later after giving him that big contract..
Chilai - February 15, 2012
That’s an interesting trade idea ;)
SpursfanSteve - February 15, 2012
ha!
Chilai - February 15, 2012
It was just valentine’s day! ;)
grego21 - February 15, 2012
That is lexicon worthy! Hilarious!
LasEspuelas - February 15, 2012
excellent recap, thanks for the read
audreypots - February 15, 2012
My ‘other three stars’ would be Bonner, Parker and Jeff Erson.
Kondor - February 15, 2012
Im sorry but this is tiring….im tired of people complaining or dont liking the “flopping”….STOP IT
Manu is drawing offensive fouls from the other team that are tottally legit. Its the right call by the ref. He is doing the right basketball play. He only exagerates contact, but still they are legit charges. He is not cheating.
You know what I dont like? A guy bullying his way to the lane and getting rewarded with free throws just because he collided with a defender. At least with the rules they way they are….the defender can stand still and punish the uncreative attacker. On one play, Manu was called with a foul on Stuckey just for getting his arms up and jumping BACKWARDS……so god bless the “flop”, because withouth there would be NO way to stop a guy like Stuckey from scoring all his points from the free throw line.
Chilai - February 15, 2012
There are good flops (like the ones you describe) and there are bad flops-see Robert Horry’s against Utah about halfway down the page here
Manu, like Horry and all the other players who are exceptionally good at drawing fouls, deserves praise for his good ones and some ridicule and criticism for the bad ones.
SpursfanSteve - February 15, 2012
but that’s the point. Manu Always draws contact….they are very very legit. In fact…he is always waiting for the oponent to make a strong move to draw the charge. His timing is impeccable.
Chilai - February 15, 2012
On the good ones, sure. But not all contact deserves a flop- like the one on that page against Bonzi Wells. Tonight, I’d say both were good flops (especially the second one against Prince where he made contact and then extended his arm). That’s certainly not always the case though.
SpursfanSteve - February 15, 2012
but it is the case 95% of the time.
Chilai - February 15, 2012
I think we’re just going to have to agree to disagree on the percentages.
SpursfanSteve - February 15, 2012
95% is about right. 5% include Nash’s flop against Horry and similar nonsense.
Kondor - February 15, 2012
If you’re a fan of the team on the wrong end of a flop/offensive foul call, it’s human nature to complain. If I’m on that end, you won’t see me praising the “flopper” even if it’s a legitimate and well-executed drawn charge. Guess what I’m trying to say is… this is a lose-lose situation that can forever be argued both ways.
silverandblack_davis - February 15, 2012
Yes! It was about time for somebody to say it. I cannot agree more. I can understand D-troit homies complaining about Manu’s “flops”, but when PtRers join them it’s ridiculous. Manu is playing good D, sometimes great D. The worst offensive play is when a player runs into defender and gets the foul. That play deserves to be ridiculed, not the ‘flop’.
Kondor - February 15, 2012
You mean when the defender’s the one who gets the foul? I don’t like that call either but I also understand why it should favor the aggressor.
silverandblack_davis - February 15, 2012
I don’t. Why? Just because Stern likes scoring more than D?
Kondor - February 15, 2012
Yep. That’s got to be the only answer. Imagine if the NBA allowed defenders to do anything to obstruct an offensive player’s path to the basket. The game would get ugly really fast.
silverandblack_davis - February 15, 2012
but a defender jumping BACKWARDS (thus trying to avoid contact) with his hands raised getting called for a foul just because the “aggresor” bullied into him? That’s ugly basketball.
In my opinion great basketball comes against a great defense. If the rules dont allow the defender to….defend then it all becomes a boring all-star game.
Chilai - February 15, 2012
exactly. you are on the roll today.
Kondor - February 15, 2012
What if the defender is an unathletic dude like Bonner? So you reward him for being too slow even if his intent is to avoid contact? That’s worse.
silverandblack_davis - February 15, 2012
If the dude keeps his ground and offender runs into him, it should be a charge, right? I don’t see why you want to punish unathletic dudes for playing D.
Kondor - February 15, 2012
Yep, the stationary defender should benefit. That’s why a big part of charge calls is determining if the defender is moving or has already established position at the point of contact.
As for the other point, who would you rather reward? The unathletic defender who, by his physical limitations, cannot help but get steamrolled because he couldn’t move away fast enough, or the talented offensive player who takes advantage of his athleticism and quickness and tries to make something happen? This is like the time when they were trying to change the rules of dunking because Lew Alcindor was too unstoppable. It’s not his fault he’s bigger and better than everyone else.
silverandblack_davis - February 15, 2012 via mobile
C’mon, there are certain rules about getting position etc. Taking charge is a part of the game, and I consider a good charge beautiful. Running into defender to draw a foul – ugly.
Kondor - February 15, 2012
The fact remains, a charge call will always be one of the toughest plays to call from a referee’s standpoint. It’s almost too subjective, a judgement call if you may.
silverandblack_davis - February 15, 2012
A lot of calls are subjective and difficult. They say that calling who touched the ball last is a very difficult call. But it doesn’t mean you should always give the ball to the offense.
Kondor - February 15, 2012
Exactly. See use of “one of the”. And I know there have been instances where the defense got rewarded. Maybe not as often or as correctly as we wouldd want, but it happens.
silverandblack_davis - February 15, 2012 via mobile
I loved one play from Jefferson when he inmediately went to the floor for a loose ball and he won it over two pistons players…..that surprised me. We are used to seeing manu do that, but FINALLY RJ did it too. I hope he keeps it up. To me, a player must be able to find ways to contribute even when his shot isnt falling.
Chilai - February 15, 2012
I feel like, the days off, Spus finally having practice and Pop reducing his time (something to actually fear) all helped. That and I think Manu has brought with him a new wave of energy. The Manu Effect.
grego21 - February 15, 2012
We seem to forget about Blair. The Beast looked legit playing with Manu.
Kondor - February 15, 2012
He played 15.5 minutes tonight. Manu can’t do anything about his fouls (a really stupid first foul after he missed the basket) or his ability to play D.
As for the baskets he made, he got some good passes from other guys that weren’t all Manu. Timmy was one of those guys.
grego21 - February 15, 2012
His scoring was ultra efficient though. He at least made those attempts count.
grego21 - February 15, 2012
Spurs Stats: This is interesting
9 Points per game: RJ, Splitter, Gary Neal, Blair (36-38 Points)
7 Points per game: Green, Leonard, Bonner (21 Points)
cuentaluis1 - February 15, 2012
Ginobili’s +17 is just awesome.
Confidant - February 15, 2012
haha, i walked on the game we were +14.
Shame, I like close games, I bet those 5 guys at the Palace enjoyed it.
ironm8 - February 15, 2012
So it’s your fault, huh?
quincyscott - February 15, 2012 via mobile
YES!
ironm8 - February 15, 2012
Flopping is a pejorative term used to describe a player who is faking it, who is acting like he has been fouled when he really hasn’t. Flopping is an attempt to fool the official into making an erroneous call.
Getting your body in position to receive the contact of the offensive player, beating him to the spot on the floor that belongs to you just as much as it does him, IS NOT FLOPPING. It is called drawing a charge, people, and it is and has always been a legitimate basketball play.
quincyscott - February 15, 2012 via mobile
Say the guys with Manu Ginobili on their team.
I’m not saying it’s not a legitimate play, but it seems like you guys have a hard time owning up to the fact that Ginobili has a reputation as a flopper for a reason: he flops. Not all all the time, but he’s certainly more theatrical about making contact than most other players in the entire league. He gets the calls and the Spurs win, so good for you, but the indignation you guys display when someone claims he flopped is kind of funny.
To try and put it into more perspective, look at this photo from the article:
This is a standard basketball play. Big man gets the ball, backs his way into the lane (shoulder first) by creating contact and bumping into his defender. Wouldn’t you guys be frustrated if Ben Wallace did a backwards somersault on one of those standard basketball play bumps to draw a foul? They probably bump like that 100+ times in a game, but if Wallace were to exaggerate the contact to make the ref call it (which I still maintain is an okay play to do if the refs are going to reward you for it) you’d be annoyed. Especially in a crucial moment, or if it was Duncan’s last foul or something. That’s all we’re saying. It’s frustrating to watch.
garrettelliott - February 15, 2012
i’d say bully for ben! then again, i appreciate itelligent basketball. but ben’s not man enough to pull that off, i reckon.
mikrobass3 - February 15, 2012
I’m not entirely sure what you mean.
garrettelliott - February 15, 2012
i’ll try to be clearer…ben is a great player with a tremendous will to win. he’s a pretty smart player too. but i don’t think he’s clever enough to get a charge/‘flop’ call.
however, he wouldn’t even try because he would see a flop attempt as ‘unmanly’. in some way that’s hard for me to explain, i believe ben is not secure enough in his manliness to attempt to help his team by drawing a charge in a manner he perceives as unmanly. maybe i’m wrong…does anyone have any video of ben ‘flopping’?
let me add, i think ben is about as tough as anyone can be.
mikrobass3 - February 15, 2012
I’ve watched a lot of Pistons games and Ben has surely flopped. He’s a big, strong dude who could probably hold his ground against almost anyone (just watch him playing Shaq back in the day) but he’s exaggerated the contact plenty of times. And for fans of the other team watching him do that, they were probably thinking, “WTF. Ben Wallace is one of the best defensive big men in the history of the game, one of the strongest guys in the game, and he gets knocked down like a sack of potatoes?!? FLOPPER!!!!!” But Pistons fans grin and go, “Yeah, defensive player of the year.”
Is this smart basketball? Pau and Howard are pretty much the same size but Pau takes the fall in the first few minutes of the game (and then again in the second quarter). Why doesn’t he do that every single time Howard bumps into him? He’s moving his feet and impeding Howard’s efforts to get to the rim. If he does that a few times in a row, won’t Howard foul out of the game?
garrettelliott - February 15, 2012
can’t view the link right now, sorry. if his feet are moving, thoguh, probably should be a defensive foul, no?
and assuming what you say about ben is true, i retract my earlier claims since they are opbviously wrong.
mikrobass3 - February 15, 2012
That’s smart basketball. Pau is not as strong as Howard. Howard has good position and is trying to take advantadge of his strength by bumping his shoulder into Gasol’s chest. Gasol knows he is not going to be able to prevent Howard from scoring, so he moves his feet, takes the contact and flops to get the refs attention to the fact that Howard is actually committing a charge.
Gasol could have decided that exaggerating contact was beneath him, allowed and easy basket and hurt his team and that youtube clip wouldn’t exist. Instead he did what he had to do to help his team get the ball back while getting Howard in foul trouble. He doesn’t do it every time because it’s a risky move: if the refs don’t call it you’ve basically allowed an easy basket. He does it when it’s the best course of action.
Also, if Howard wasn’t reliant on strength, he would find other ways to score that don’t involve shoulder-to-the-chest contact. If players are just supposed to move out of the way or just take the illegal contact without doing anything, Howard would score 40 a game.
Edg5 - February 15, 2012
completely agree. It’s one of the reasons I tend to enjoy watching post play instead of guard play- the big guys don’t flop near as much (Divac being the clearest exception)
SpursfanSteve - February 15, 2012
When you are being fouled, it is part of your JOB to relay that message to the official.
cocanat - February 15, 2012
That’s a scary statement. Imagine the histrionics if everyone’s job was to relay that they’ve been fouled to the officials? A few people have already made the soccer references….
garrettelliott - February 15, 2012
Scary it may be, but you’ve just cost your team two points if you’ve been fouled and the official doesn’t call it.
cocanat - February 15, 2012
It’s part of the game. The good/great/even bad coaches all work the refs during the game to make them aware of fouls. They do this in all sports. And players do it too.
grego21 - February 15, 2012
But some do it more. Like Manu. That’s what I’m saying. Most players don’t make a big deal about getting hit. Maybe they’ll yell, “Hey!” like Kobe, or maybe they’ll glare at the ref or smack their arm where they got hit, but some players take it to a whole ‘nother level. There aren’t many of them, but basketball fans all know who they are.
garrettelliott - February 15, 2012
To me, it’s all the same. Different players do it in different ways. Some use their body, some use their words, some use their screaming, some give looks. Some throw stuff, etc.
Manu is doing it in the way that’s most likely going to get the call in their favor. A lot of the other ways don’t work as well.
grego21 - February 15, 2012
But it’s annoying. Admit it. :)
garrettelliott - February 15, 2012
I find it all equally annoying, but it happens, in all sports. And that’s not going to change.
grego21 - February 15, 2012
Nothing’s goin to change with that defeatist attitude, mister!
garrettelliott - February 15, 2012 via mobile
Honestly, i’d prefer instant replay challenges before that happening. NFL style seems to work just fine. My compromise is anything in last 2 minutes is fair game, at least for short term.
grego21 - February 15, 2012
“But it’s annoying. Admit it. :)”
we need one of our crack writers to do ‘aesthetics of the artful flop’. we need someone clever to put together a vid for ‘the 20 best (most dramatic, winningest) flops ever in the nba’.
bad flops are annoying, sure. well-planned and carefully executed ‘flops’ are beautiful.
mikrobass3 - February 16, 2012
There’s two ways to play a post player who is known as physical. You can belly up, dig on the balls of your feet and try to keep a hand up for the shot, or if he is known for slamming the shoulder/back area to the basket, plant your feet flat and become a human Jenga tower. It’s your choice in how to play it but if you allow the player to create contact, knocking you down you put the burden on the ref, which could go either way. And with a smaller player, it’s normally going to go their way. It’s not a flop, just a set style of play. (There have been flops but this is not one of them)
Cedarpark - February 15, 2012
A comment on whether Duncan is “one of the Top 5 bigs in the game”……There is a fairly simple stat in determining the relative performance of bigs. You see how they fill up the stat sheet. You do this by adding the PPG, RPG, APG, SPG, and BPG, then divide the sum by the total minutes played. The great bigs have one per minute.
And what will you find by doing this? There are 4 bigs who are averagine more than 1 per minute…..Their names are Howard, Love, Griffin, and Duncan. No Gasols. There is one player who has averaged more than 1 per minute for each of his seasons in the League. His name is Duncan.
Clearly, even in his 15th season, Tim is still one of the Top 4 bigs in the game, and it’s a shame that he wasn’t chosen for the All-Star game. Too many people have bought in to the line that “Duncan is slowing down.” It’s simply not true.
cocanat - February 15, 2012
THIS.
p2cat - February 15, 2012 via mobile
Woop, Leonard has improved his 3pt % to 0.378
spursfan87 - February 15, 2012
Uh oh.
That’s getting into the territory of being respectable.
J.R. Wilco - February 15, 2012
In his last 5 games, he’s averaging 1.8 attempts per game. That’s better because he hasn’t taken a lot of attempts throughout the season.
grego21 - February 15, 2012
Artest (still not going to call him MWP just yet) is hitting 18% of his three’s and he’s taking over 2 per game.
Guess that makes Skynyrd’s #’s look positively Novakian!
J.R. Wilco - February 15, 2012
Artest is pretty much feast or famine these days.
grego21 - February 15, 2012
Or maybe more like feast or plague, because he can be pretty bad for a series of games.
grego21 - February 15, 2012
I call him Metta Head Case….
doggydogworld - February 15, 2012
and he’s hitting 0.778 on 3s over his last 5 games
give Chip a raise, first Tiago and now Kawhi
spursfan87 - February 15, 2012
RJ as well.
grego21 - February 15, 2012
And Tony before that.
J.R. Wilco - February 15, 2012
And Blair next season.
Edg5 - February 15, 2012
Here’s hoping since Chip has already been working with him for a few years now…..
I find it’s a bad sign if Bonner is developing extra moves off the drive faster than Blair is developing anything away from the basket.
grego21 - February 15, 2012
Very very true.
grego21 - February 15, 2012
My stars:
3. RJ. Broke Detroit’s 14-0 run and kept them from taking the lead (temporarily) with a huge oreb and putback of a(nother) Duncan miss. His big 3 a couple minutes later to regain lead came after he anticipated Detroit would sag off him and told Manu to look for him at the top of the key. Kawhi did some good things but if he was in there instead of RJ those last 5-6 minutes the Spurs would have lost.
2. Tony Parker. Struggled all game but took over in crunch time, scoring 8 of our final 9 crucial points. Had Manu done this PTR would nominate him for league MVP.
3. Timmy.
doggydogworld - February 15, 2012
+1
grego21 - February 15, 2012
To be fair, we’ve been giving Tony his proper dues for a while now. I agree about RJ.
Edg5 - February 15, 2012
True, the calls to trade him for a ‘pass-first point guard’ have diminished considerably.
Although I’m not a fan of +/- for a single game or less, the 4th quarter was interesting:
6:20 with Manu Ginobili playing 2 guard: +9
5:40 with Danny Green playing 2 guard: -17
doggydogworld - February 15, 2012
Green had his troubles in this game. It wasn’t his finest +/- work. I feel like the starting lineup is hurting him somewhat.
grego21 - February 15, 2012
I agree, he plays so much better off the bench, he’s an energy player.
spursfan87 - February 15, 2012
Him and Manu off the bench. Oh man…
In my ideal world JA and RJ would start. Then you have a Manu/Green/Leonard/Tiago/Neal/Bonner unit. Obviously it’s more than 5, but Pop can mix and match. Usually some guy comes into the starting unit, earlier on.
grego21 - February 15, 2012
I LOVE the guys you have listed as a 2nd unit. Think the refs would look the other way while we played 6 guys at once? (I know you pointed out the discrepancy, but it’s just too much fun to leave alone.)
J.R. Wilco - February 15, 2012
My thought is,
Bonner - first big coming in for Blair (either foul trouble or bad match ups), tend to make this come early.
Leonard - Prior to Manu’s injury, he came in early for RJ.
JA – Green comes in for him.
And so on….
But 6 men on the court would be interesting. Maybe if two guys stood near each other. I mean, who really notices Bonner on the court?
grego21 - February 15, 2012
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