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Pounding The Rock

State of the Spurs- Robinson, Duncan, Splitter and Blair

This is the second installment of my weekly series looking at the State of the Spurs. I like to write about trends I see, statistics, make predictions, and say all sorts of things that make sense to me that you may or may not disagree with.

My theme for this week:

Tim Duncan cannot move to the David Robinson role, and neither Tiago Splitter nor Dejuan Blair are going to be the new Tim Duncan.

Star-divide

This is not going to be, I'm sure, a popular sentiment. David Robinson and Tim Duncan are two of the 50 greatest players of all time. Duncan is the greatest power forward of all time (GOATPUFF, if you will) and Robinson, depending on who is listing them, ranks as at worst a top 10 center ever. We were beyond fortunate to have them both at the same time. You cannot replace them with even the best late-round draft picks. It's not possible, or at least not probable.

Everyone who's read much of what I've written over the past year or two knows I'm a huge Dejuan Blair fan. After his great rookie year, I was predicting he'd end up averaging Charles Barkleyish numbers. I didn't think 18/12 was out of the realm of possibility. And, honestly, if he played for a coach like Mike D'Antoni (I use the term "coach" loosely) where the primary play was pick and roll with a pass first point guard, he'd probably come close. Fortunately, he doesn't play in a horrible system like that. He plays in ours. And, for the most part, he plays well. He will likely average just short of a double double this season- 12/9 is reasonable. For all his flaws, he is still more good than bad. But...he is not a top 50 of all time player. I don't expect to get much argument about that. In all likelihood, if you wanted to name 100 centers from history, he might be in the top 50-75 of that position. That might be a stretch- I can't name enough historical centers to know. What I do know is that he's improved, even if his stats don't necessarily show it. His free throws look better. Actually, all of his shots look better, even if some aren't falling. Personally, I don't have a problem with him making a mistake or two on offense due to over aggression. Last night against the Hawks, and the game against the Rockets, he made several bad decisions. Too many. But he's a third year pro who only played two years in college- this *should* be his rookie season. That's not an excuse, that's just a point to make for perspective. He's not a 27 or 28 year old vet. Blair is still learning exactly what he can and can't do- much like Danny Green, Cory Joseph, James Anderson, and Kawhi Leonard.

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Take shelter in my Bosom, Dejuan, and ye shall find rest

via l.yimg.com

You're tired of me talking about Dejuan- I can see the same glazed look in your eyes that Dejuan gets when he thinks of Whataburger, although what's going through your head is not quite the same. So lets talk about who everyone wants to talk about- Tiago Splitter. He is, right now, our first, second, or third best big man, depending on the night. Usually, (I'm about to blaspheme) he and Dejuan actually outplay Tim Duncan. Tiago is finally showing us everything we wanted him to show us. He is absolutely full of all the sparkling glory that everyone here says he is. Stats back it up, we all see it, there's no real point arguing about it. He's good. Real good.

But what he is not is the next Tim Duncan, and we should not expect him to be. Tiago Splitter will likely never be a top 5 PF or top 25 center, however you want to classify him. He's athletic enough to be in the NBA, but he's not the athlete that Duncan and Robinson were at his age. People forget- our Big Fundamental was also at one point a "fun big" by anyone's standards, capable of dunking over anyone. Robinson was an athletic freak.

He was able to move over and create space for Tim because that was the only way it would work. Duncan can't move over now because we don't have a replacement for him- and barring a big shock for a trade, a free agent, or a lottery pick, we won't get one, either.

This isn't all doom and gloom- the most enjoyable basketball the past two seasons, for me, has been watching Splitter and Dejuan play together. For having such similar skill sets, they mesh well on both ends. They both screen well, and they are both really good at finding space around the basket- they also both find each other around the basket. Interior passing is the most beautiful thing in basketball for me.

That's enough on that topic for now.

Things I've noticed:

The Duncan/Splitter lineup works well.

Bonner is finally shooting again, and after last night I think he'll be back on track.

Richard Jefferson hasn't completely disappeared, but he's close. It's kind of like looking at a "Where's Waldo" picture- you know he's there somewhere, but you sometimes have to look to find him.

Things I think will happen:

Danny Green will be the second leading shot blocker on our team. He'll also average the most steals, and he'll continue to get significant playing time once Manu and Ford come back- meaning even less time for Neal and Anderson. If he continues to get close to 20 minutes a game, he'll be a good sleeper pick for 6th man of the year or MIP, one or the other.

Things I'm going to watch for:

Will Malcolm Thomas stick, or is our experiment with him nearly over?

Which lineup gets more minutes together- Duncan/Splitter or Blair/Splitter? I like both.

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Comments

Every time Blair LOL’s with his tongue out after making a mistake, an innocent fairy dies, and the only way to bring that fairy back to life is for a humble hard-working man to play gritty defense. If it weren’t for Tiago Splitter there would be so many dead fairies.

I’ve only seen him do that after fouls…and several of those fouls have been egregiously bad calls. His laughter is the equivalent of Tim’s bug eyes. While my preference would be to turn him in to an unemotional rebounding robot machine, I don’t think that’s possible. So I’ll settle for him laughing instead of going nuclear on the refs- unless its JC, he’s less likely to get a technical this way.

He’s had his share of the bad ones, but he’s asking for it sometimes. There are times when he needs to keep his hands away, especially when it’s a smaller guy, because body contact shows a lot more.

The Quotes page has just been updated, due to your recent awesomeness.

Actually, all of his shots look better, even if some aren’t falling.

For Blair, it depends. Pre-late 3rd quarter, he tried to post up guys that were bigger than him and failed a lot. His good points came when other set him up. Whenever he dribbles more than a couple times, it’s bad, just like with Bonner. In some ways, they are similar in that they have to stay within themselves very tightly and will perform. Otherwise, it gets a little messy.

Will Malcolm Thomas stick, or is our experiment with him nearly over?

There really hasn’t been much to judge him on.. But then I’d say the same on the crazy JA situation as well.

I was talking about the shots in general, not the decisions behind them ;)

And I’m OK with him trying to go straight at Josh Smith/Dalembert a couple of times early in the game- but if it doesn’t work, he needs to reign it back in. Most of the time, he’s good at that. The past week, not so much.

The problem, is he did it more often than once, when it wasn’t working. One of the times Pop pulled him was for that, because he kept turning it over. Luckily, Atlanta sucked last night and didn’t make the most of those 6 turnovers.

He’s -27 in his last 10 games (-16 overall), which worries me. But then Splitter is +51 which is stellar. RJ is +27, so his effort is showing. He did play all of the second half versus NO, except for like 35 seconds.

Those are absolutely horrific plus/minus numbers. Ugh!

I had no idea it was that bad.

That’s why he’s been playing less minutes in the second half (sans the Atlanta game).

Yeah, feel free to exclude misleading data from blowouts!

Hehe. Well actually if we did the +/- for his minutes prior to the end of the 3rd, it would actually take down his +/- even more.

Just heard that the Spurs are not picking up the option for James Anderson, wonder whats gonna happen with him…

is his rook contract already up?

dissapointing

he was one of our highest picks in recent years (20th).

Yeah. That’s the last time we let Cap do the drafting….ppsshhh

if blair could develop a midrange jumper im sure he’d get more minutes in rotation

It might happen, but it’s going to take some time.

Hope you’re ready to be patient.

Yeah, well, i hope it doesn’t take another contract (unless its bargain basement) to figure that one out.

It’s GETTING better. It’s just not there yet.

Far less of a ON or OFF judgement, and more subjective in nature.

Well prior to the end of the 3rd quarter, his judgement looked really bad. He ended with 6 turnovers. And one or two offensive fouls?

People forget- our Big Fundamental was also at one point a “fun big” by anyone’s standards, capable of dunking over anyone. Robinson was an athletic freak.

But can they dunk and land on their butt like Splitter can?

Kidding aside, some thought-provoking stuff here, SfS. I like it. I’m sort of a proponent of that “Duncan should slide into a Robinson role”, but I meant that to counter the argument that Tim and Tiago won’t mesh as well as a Duncan-Blair front court. Tim shoots a lot of jumpers these days, anyway. If it’s one of those games when Timmy wants to attack the paint then pairing him more with Blair might make sense.

I was thinking this the other day too, about how much Duncan shoots from the outside now and how damn accurate he is, there really is no reason why he and Tiago can’t coexist. Especially when you think about Oberto and Duncan, how well they seemed to mesh. Oberto could shoot the ball decently enough but he rarely did, and Timmy was still playing almost entirely from the block back then. I wonder if Pop is kinda’ sandbagging this combination a bit.

I want him to be Lamarcus Aldridge senior… when it comes to jump shooting.

The problem I have with Blair is that he has regressed badly since his rookie season.

Just look at his rebounding numbers:

2009-2010

16.0 Offensive rebounding rate

25.1 Defensive rebounding rate

20.6 Rebounding Rate (5th in the league)

2010-2011

14.8 ORR

229 DRR

18.9 RebR (8th in the league)

2011-2012

13.6 ORR

16.4 DRR

15.0 RebR (30th in the league)

As a rookie Blair was a rebounding machine, he didnt try to do too much on the floor most of his offense came in put backs, pnr. He also played with a chip on his shoulder.

But right now Blair has stop being a rebounding machine, and he is trying to play like Barkley on the floor, trying to do too much, like the game against Dalember.

IMO Blair should go back to being the player he was as a rookie, he needs to focus on rebounding instead of scoring.

Part of that results from not getting much playing time with Bonner anymore. His rebounding numbers went down after he was moved to the starting lineup- a lineup full of good rebounders for their position, except RJ. If he was still on the bench, he’d likely be putting up similar to slightly better numbers from his rookie year.

Just opinion.

Thanks for no sugarcoat.

And his numbers should go down, yet his ability to box out hasn’t really improved, on the defensive boards. No excuses with a body like his…. And I blame the coaching staff for this as well.

I have nothing cogent to add, SpursfanSteve, except to say that I really enjoyed reading your writeup. Thanks!

If you don’t have something cogent to say … compliment the writer!

Robinson was an athletic freak.

I feel like you conveniently ignored the part where David Robinson hurt his back and had to miss an entire season. When he came back, he was no longer an “athletic freak.” He was stiff and could barely move. Obviously, TIago is not going to become the MVP version of David or Tim, but he definitely is not as far off as you make it seem from old, injured David.

The last title we won, yes. You’re probably right- but even then in limutes David could still get off the floor.

On the scale of athleticism for Spurs bigs, I’d rank them somewhere like this:
Robinson
Duncan
Rose
Robinson during final season
Splitter/Blair
Oberto
Nesterovic

Not just the last title, you can pinpoint his loss of athleticism to the year he took off. People always made a big deal about how he took a step back and allowed Tim to jump in the spotlight. I always thought his injury caused that. He was never the same after his back left him. I agree with most of your list, but I’d move Malik. If you’re a “big man,” being big helps a lot. It more depends how you define athletic, and I think that’s where we are disagreeing.

Robinson
Duncan
Robinson after injury
Splitter / Horry (It’s difficult to beat 7 feet. Horry wasn’t quite that tall but made up for it with his IQ.)
Rose
Blair
Oberto
Nesterovic
….Every Other Big Man Ever to Wear a Spurs Jersey….
Bonner

Your list (and parenthetical interjection) made me realize that BBIQ can add inches to your “playing height.”

It’s funny ‘cause it’s true!

I think you could make the case that TIm becomes an old, still effective version of MVP Tim and Tiago becomes a worse defender, better offensive threat than old, injured David.

Don’t forget to mention that Tiago can play far more minutes than Old David.

Remember how they used to ration his time on the court like it was the last canteen of water during a trip halfway across the Saraha?

To put it simply, Duncan and Robinson were both number 1 picks in the draft. They are 2 historically good players.
Tiago is great, and I love how he plays. But he will NEVER be even an all-star. No shame in that, he is great but not a star.

What we need to figure out for the present purposes is how does Tiago compare to guys like Perkins, Haywood, Bynum, Love, the Gasols, Dalembert, Scola, Nene, Favors, Jefferson. Before I started writing this I thought there would be not many guys to list but I was wrong.

And another key question soon will be if he can pass away from the double team.

I think Splitts will be fine. He needs to learn to keep the ball higher since guards keep swiping at him.

I believe he piled up the assists for his Euro team, which was built on dumping the ball into the post to create mismatches that the defense would doubleteam and allow for passes back out to the perimeter for open 3 pointers.

And it’s interesting that you mentioned this, because I was recently watching Splitter in the post as he was doubled, and he wasn’t able to immediately find his open teammate, and had to make a pass to the closest teammate that he could successfully push to ball on.

A huge part of the success of 4Down (which the Spurs are running more often now that Tiago is showing confidence in the post) is the ability of the big to quickly see where the double is coming from, and feeding the outside shooter who’s wide open. I’m optimistic that Tiago will be able to get there. And when he does? Watch out!

Tiago is already there. One of his strong abilities is the pass. He is a great passer. Remember, he is still adjusting to the NBA. Each passing game he is improving. But the passing is already there, I’ve seen it in all levels of competitions. It will arrive to the NBA VERY soon.

Just needs to learn to keep the ball up high from the pesky guards/wings.

I think you’re saying that with every passing game, Tiago’s passing is improving, both with the passes past, and the passes to come which are yet to be passed.

FWIW, I agree.

Hmm. Tiago might have a chance at being an All-Star.

Not immediately, but there is a real possibility I think.

I doubt it. West has too many bigs. Heck Aldridge still hasn’t been an all star, which is amazing..

That IS pretty crazy to consider. And it brings a ton of perspective with it too.

Playing in Portland hurts him a lot…

Not like it’s hurt Oden and Roy.

Curse of Portland…

that’s my point. You can be an EXCELLENT player and still not an all-star. I think Tiago will never reach a top 24 player level. Its ok, no shame in being in the top 40 or so.

I’d settle for 360th.

Oh and I agree with the gist of your statement.

I think the reason Tiago is playing so well is his improvement on the free throw line. I think last year he was a little afraid of going to the line, thats the reason he was not so aggressive last season IMO.

Excellent point. I just might add that theory to my Tiago post, which you can expect in the next week or two.

The re-built his shot with Chip. Trust in Chip.

his next challenge is Leonard

With what he did for RJ, i can see it happening. Just not this season. And I think he’ll pretty much be ordered by Pop to spend his whole summer with Chip (if he doesn’t do it voluntarily already).

He’s already seen success with Tony and RJ and Tiago.

I give him better than even odds.

Leonard’s shot already looks better, than it did when in college, so it’s already working. It’ll take more time though. Sadly it requires an offseason.

He worked on his shot before even meeting Chip. LOL. There is video of him working on it before the draft also and his shot looks just like it did during those workouts

I saw the ESPN Sports Science segment that showed that he did. But he worked with Chip before the lockout and then continued that with RJ during the summer.

My hat is off to Josh for setting Tiago free.

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