Christian Petersen - Getty Images
TUCSON, AZ - MARCH 17: Taylor Montgomery #44 of the Northern Colorado Bears shies away from the approach of the frightfully large hand of Kawhi Leonard #15 of the San Diego State Aztecs during the second round of the 2011 NCAA men's basketball tournament. (Photo by Christian Petersen/Getty Images)
Earlier today, we got the news that the Spurs have made an offer to Josh Howard (AKA The Big Bug). This hardly comes as a shock considering the Spurs have been reported to be interested in every single small forward free agent out there. First it was Caron Butler, then Shane Battier, then Grant Hill, you get the idea: if they could play SF, the Spurs were interested in them. At first I thought that it was because of the seemingly impending release of Richard Jefferson via amnesty, but with RJ in training camp, the Spurs' fascination with small forwards could be deemed a bit of a head-scratcher.
While the views on Jefferson vary according to the fans, and his release has both detractors and supporters, one thing all of Spurs fandom seems to agree on is that regardless of the SF situation, the Spurs need help down low. The Memphis series seemed to highlight the fact that the Spurs had a pretty flawed front line, aside from Tim Duncan. We all had our favorites we wanted the Spurs to pursue, but there were no reports of the Spurs front office showing interest in any of the free agent bigs. Most of the guys we liked have already signed with other teams and all that's left is "plan C" type of players. It seems like PATFO dropped the ball and failed to understand what we as fans thought was the Spurs greatest need: an athletic power forward that could rebound and guard the pick and roll.
But maybe, we were looking at it all wrong. What if the Spurs were not trying to find that athletic power forward defender because they believed they already had one on the roster? I'm talking about one Kawhi Leonard.
Now, standing at only 6-7, Leonard hardly seems like big man material. Sure, his wingspan (7' 3") and standing reach (8' 10") are nice, but his slight frame would surely cause him to struggle against the most physical PFs. That is certainly true, and considering how undersized the Spurs' frontcourt is, I can understand the skepticism with which fans would approach this notion, but I think it's not as far-fectched as it might appear at first sight. There is precedence for a player with almost identical physical tools as Kawhi playing PF for one of the best defensive teams in the league. I'm talking about Luc Richard Mbah a Moute of Milwaukee.
Anyone who has watched a few Bucks games in the last couple of seasons knows that they are a great defensive team, anchored by Andrew Bogut, the best defensive center this side of Dwight Howard. They have other underrated defenders on their squad as well, but perhaps the biggest factor for their defensive success outside of Bogut is the versatile Mbah a Moute.
When considering his frame, he's listed at 6'-7", he's not the ideal candidate to guard power forwards, but with a high BBIQ and unwavering effort he manages to be effective against face-up PFs and some of the lesser talented post players. His contributions on offense come from cuts to the basket and offensive boards since his ball handling and shooting are needing improvement. That's the reason he was moved to PF from his seemingly more natural position at the 3. By reading scouting reports about Kawhi, I keep finding similarities with Mbah a Moute besides their respective physical profiles (Mbah a Moute's wingspan is 7' 0.5" and his standing reach 8' 7.5"). Kawhi's weaknesses (ball handling, three point shooting) are the same as Mbah a Moute's, while his projected strenghts (versatile defender, solid rebounder) are also eerily similar.
I'm not saying Kawhi is going to be as effective or versatile as Luc, but when you consider that Kawhi is the superior athlete, you have a very interesting case for Leonard as a jack-of-all-trades back-up PF as long as a strong defensive center is patroling the paint. Of course he could also spend some time at small forward depending on the match ups, but playing him at the 4 with either Duncan or Splitter to cover his weaknesses, could yield some good results.
Considering how slim the pickings are in terms of free agent big men, trying out Leonard in that position could be a worthy gamble. If early in the season it seems apparent that PF it's not the right position for the rookie, the type of big men that are available now will probably be available later.
That being said, it would be a pretty big risk betting on a rookie changing positions and understanding the Spurs' complicated defensive schemes right off the bat. But with most of us asking for some creative changes to the rotation, it could make sense for the Spurs to roll the dice and hope they get lucky. Just food for thought.
0 recs | 272 comments
Very interesting idea. Couldn’t be worse than Blair. And undersized doesn’t always mean bad D, just look at Chuck Hayes. I’m excited to see what Kiwi can do, and I believe we’ll see more of him at the 4 than most would think.
KA1Z3R - December 12, 2011
Having a guy out there that can guard multiple positions is never a bad thing. However, I do want Kawhi to develop SF offensive skills – at least he already knows how to rebound.
CapHill - December 12, 2011
Spurs G Gary Neal underwent an appendectomy on Monday and will be sidelined indefinitely.
Spurs Yoda - December 12, 2011
Will that make him more likely to play PF for us?
J.R. Wilco - December 12, 2011
Yes, he automatically gained mutant abilities after his surgery.
grego21 - December 12, 2011
maybe his appendix…
Spurs Yoda - December 12, 2011
Removing the appendix makes him taller?
Ayatollah - December 12, 2011
Only with Pop at the scalpel
Spurs Yoda - December 12, 2011
Reminds me of that one episode of South Park… but I won’t say more
NYHorn - December 12, 2011
Perhaps its not the lack of effort by PATFO
Perhaps SA is just not viewed as that favorable a place anymore by free agents, the team does skew on the elderly side.
If thats the case, Im afraid this run might be over
bren - December 12, 2011
Well, less that and more that Spurs are seen as “done” so to speak. Duncan and Manu are seen as past their prime. The Spurs system is very rigid and requires a lot of work too.
grego21 - December 12, 2011
Though it can be considered odd that the Spurs are looking everywhere for a SF, I still wouldn’t seriously entertain this.
It’s likely the Spurs just wanted another veteran small forward to either start or back Kawhai up after they had dumped Rage, rather than rely on a SF corps consisting totally of rookies. ( James Anderson may as well be a rookie)
alamobro - December 12, 2011
I see Rage is attending training camp. Maybe hes just going to be plan C.
alamobro - December 12, 2011
Plan “C” as in CENTER?
Why not, we play enough small ball!
J.R. Wilco - December 12, 2011
In this day and age, you can never have enough small ball. I imagine a Leonard-RJ-Manu-Neal-Tony lineup coming.
silverandblack_davis - December 12, 2011
Yea, but we will no longer be small in the 6 ft 4 to 6ft 9 league we are starting.
alamobro - December 12, 2011
Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding.
J.R. Wilco - December 12, 2011
Easy rec.
DrumsInTheDeep - December 12, 2011
Not as easy as when I include the pic of Hector, like I usually do.
J.R. Wilco - December 13, 2011
Yep. It’ll be the standard that Pop set, just like his mentor, Nelson, set with small ball.
grego21 - December 12, 2011
It’s been done. Over the past two years, the lineup of Blair/Jefferson/ Manu/Hill/Another guard has been trotted out several times. Going by height, Rage would be the C and Blair the PF.
SpursfanSteve - December 12, 2011
Which is oh so frustrating. At the very least, with Hill gone, you’ll have Anderson/Green/Butler/Manu which at least makes them bigger on the wings…
*hoping for the league to enforce the 6’10 max rule
grego21 - December 12, 2011
Who knows, what if they plan on trading Kawhi for a big man. Stranger things have happened, like the Spurs offering Josh Howard a contract.
alamobro - December 12, 2011
But what is the smartness of that plan?
NYHorn - December 12, 2011
I was speculating, I dont think they would draft Kawhi just to trade him before the season begins.
alamobro - December 12, 2011
What is the smartness of offering Josh Howard a contract? I mean, they really couldnt find someone with a better attitude and similar skillset?
alamobro - December 12, 2011
Well I don’t understand that either. I’m just trying to get inside this FO’s head. Bad idea, I know
NYHorn - December 12, 2011
Eh, maybe Howard has matured and convinced the Spurs he could be a good pickup. Like you said, you knows what the FO is thinking.
alamobro - December 12, 2011
Here’s Hollinger’s brief scouting take on LRMaM:
silverandblack_davis - December 12, 2011
By the way, Edg, I liked the comparison to Kawhi. Hopefully Leonard has significantly better offense than Moot Court.
silverandblack_davis - December 12, 2011
I’m surprised you didn’t end that quote with a TWSS.
J.R. Wilco - December 12, 2011
I’m slow to warm up after that looooong lockout. Wait, is it really over?
silverandblack_davis - December 12, 2011
TWSS
KA1Z3R - December 12, 2011
Thanks davis. I’m confident Leonard will develop into a much better offensive player than Luc. I do expect him to struggle a bit his rookie season with both 3pt shooting and ball handling, though. Which is why I think he’ll spend time at the 4 spot.
Edg5 - December 14, 2011
Leonard is already better offensively than Luc and thats a fact
gunnin' gervin - December 14, 2011
He’s worth throwing money at. That’s for sure.
grego21 - December 12, 2011
TWSS (See how easy that was?)
Tim in Surrey - December 13, 2011
Ed (dfjmed) - December 12, 2011
Ed (dfjmed) - December 12, 2011
Not surprising after the way they went on that huge postseason run without him.
Wait, he was playing during that? … weird.
J.R. Wilco - December 12, 2011
OJ and Allen both played. It was Rudy Gay who’s been injured.
Ed (dfjmed) - December 12, 2011
Dont remind me that Gay was also out during the post season
Spurs Yoda - December 12, 2011
They are just finishing off the deal that was done except for being done officially in the right amount of time…
grego21 - December 12, 2011
he seemed to play more like a 4 in college, but he was far more physically dominant than most guys around him. he’s not going to be able to get by on power and athleticism alone when stacked against NBA forwards.
with kawhi at PF you kind of neutralize his best asset, which is size/athleticism. he’s above average at SF, but middling at PF, just like how blair is a thumper at 4, but overmatched at 5.
i still like the potential front court of tiago/leonard/blair in the future, assuming blair steps up a bit. you could potentially have two starting forwards that bring a lot of power to their spots and a long, athletic center who’s good at providing help defense. i can see that kind of front court being very tough and versatile on defense and offense. it also lets you use a guy like bonner selectively to stretch the floor, instead of giving him a ton of minutes, exposing his weaknesses.
iheartyourfart - December 12, 2011
Blair is overmatched at 4 as well, in the NBA because he doesn’t use his footwork. That and he needs to depend on his wingspan more because he lacks the size. That is a big reason why he’s a big liability on defense.
grego21 - December 12, 2011
I think hes simply too short to defend other power forwards, even despite his wingspan. They just shoot right over him, he cant legitimately challenge their shots.
alamobro - December 12, 2011
There exists where Blair needs to be super good at what he does well to make up for the mismatches on defense he presents, unfortunately. At the moment, he’s a situation player at best.
grego21 - December 12, 2011
his problems are as much in his head as they are in his body i think. he’s overly aggressive and not disciplined on defense. i think that’s a result of being undersized but given his power i still think he can develop into a solid defender with work. there are lots of guys that were elite defenders that had less to work with physically than blair (k. malone, ben wallace, rodman, etc.)
he is definitely poorly equipped to match up against someone like gasol or dirk, but with experience he can potentially use his power advantage to force them to low percentage shots without drawing fouls. his d is a work in progress to put it kindly, but at this point i don’t think he’s a lost cause.
iheartyourfart - December 12, 2011
You are giving too little credit to all your examples.
Malone might not have been long, but he had a good body and had good fundamentals. Had a great PG in Stockton who will always make him look even greater, but again, he was taller.
Rodman, although not a great offensive player was super smart and used his body well. He still was very athletic and taller. Had good hops. That combined with his body helped him do what he could do along with his smarts.
Ben Wallace, again taller, but had a good body, even if he wasn’t super tall. he had good footwork/speed for being a good help defender.
All 3 were both a decent amount taller even though they might not have had the full skill set. I have a hard time throwing Malone together with Wallace/Rodman though.
grego21 - December 12, 2011
don’t mean to short change them. i just think a lot of bigs “learn” defense after they reach the NBA. other than superstars and defensive specialists out of college few 4s and 5s are drafted into NBA with a finished product defensively. rodman and wallace may have always been great defenders but i don’t see anything about blair’s phsyique (i.e. that he can’t work on) that would prevent him from becoming at least an adequate defender.
iheartyourfart - December 13, 2011
Well, Malone was never that great defender, even if he has ended up being a great player. However, his body and skill set even, coming in were greater.
Defense can be learned and footwork can be improved, but Rodman and Wallace had to earn their way through doing those other things. That’s a piece of who they are.
Blair was solid all of his career. He didn’t have the same path, and his motivation is obviously questionable at times. I hope the best for him, but he’s going to have to start over in some ways. That takes a mighty strong man, both physically and mentally, and most can’t do it.
Unfortunately, his size gets in the way of how he currently plays. So he’ll have to change that drastically, or remain the way he is (with slight to moderate improvements).
grego21 - December 13, 2011
no doubt in my mind he has mental fortitude
iheartyourfart - December 13, 2011
He’s lying. He probably closed it really slowly as he was resisting the urge not to grab another late night snack.
silverandblack_davis - December 13, 2011
GOL
grego21 - December 13, 2011
Then again, have you seen photos of him lately? The man is looking fit.
quincyscott - December 14, 2011
I will see it when I believe it. He was fit at the beginning of the season, but then got fat during the midpoint of the season.
grego21 - December 14, 2011
Exactly.
quincyscott - December 14, 2011
Blair needs to learn how to use his size and strength to his advantage on defense. Barkley was a solid defender and he is shorter than Blair. If Dejuan could figure out how to use his strength to keep offensive players further away from the block or there favorite spots on the floor that would be a huge part of the battle. He tries to reach in to much which gives up good defensive positioning and gets him in foul trouble. If he could be more selective with the steal attempts that would help a whole lot. He moves pretty well for a big guy and he has quick hands which is good for defense. I think he could be a way better defender than what he is with hard work and film study. He is never gonna be a shot blocker but he can learn to make it harder for offensive big guys to score on him.
gunnin' gervin - December 14, 2011
Until he stops thinking he can out athleticisize his opponent with his long arms and agile quickness, then he’ll improve. He improved at the beginning of the season and didn’t reach as much, but then started reaching against as the season progressed.
Unfortunately, yes, you get steals from time to time, but too often, Duncan was left with a needless foul or the team got an easy score after the breakdown of defense.
grego21 - December 14, 2011
SO TRUE
Getting good positioning and keeping it without fouling is where he needs to improve on. He does that and he will be a way better defender and will justify getting more minutes. Like some folks have stated on here before, being a good defender doesn’t always show up in the stats sheets. I can see him being a solid defender if like you said he starts to realizes he can’t out atheleticisize others and starts using his strength and size while being smart doing so
gunnin' gervin - December 14, 2011
This is my favorite new verb of the season. Thanks, grego!
J.R. Wilco - December 14, 2011
It sounds like being anesthesized by a 300-pound nurse.
silverandblack_davis - December 14, 2011
Someone should just sit him down with hours of tape from Rodman and Bowen. Masters of good position defense.
grego21 - December 14, 2011
+1
So damn true.
gunnin' gervin - December 14, 2011
Of course the focus should be down low, not at the “3.” If the Howard rumors are correct,
I don’t think that he represents an improvement over RJ, particularly since he’s been
injured the last couple of seasons. Incidentally, RJ is demonstrating a lot of class, claiming
that he’s still a Spur until he hears something official to the contrary. This is in direct
contrast to Odom, who pouted and demanded that he be traded, which he was.
mercer - December 12, 2011
I hope the Spurs aren’t being stubborn. We can win the championship small and we can prove it. They could I believe get a big even two of they tried half as hard as they are chasing a SF. If they can’t sign a C through FA they should be able to pull off a trade for a C. I know I keep harping on the team getting at least one C but I really feel that is all we need to win at least one more chip. We can’t afford another small ball experiment year.
spurlover - December 12, 2011 via mobile
I think they pretty much banked on Tiago being the best big not named Duncan, at least for the time being. Any addition they get will probably consist of a big guy for spot coverage, hopefully he is approaching the quality of Dice.
alamobro - December 12, 2011
Yea I think Tiago is going to be great for us this year but we still need at least one more big. I say at least one more big because if we got two bigs or more we are pretty much a lock for a championship run.
spurlover - December 12, 2011 via mobile
there aren’t a lot of teams that couldn’t use a tyson chandler type or a marc gasol… however there’s very few teams who can make that kind of a move happen
iheartyourfart - December 12, 2011
Spurs don’t need a big named Gasol/Chandler, because that’s not possible. However, Spurs still need a guy who is somewhat smart and somewhat athletic.
grego21 - December 12, 2011
They aren’t being stubborn. They are limited by their talent and money. And of course players or teams wanting to deal with them. Keep in mind, having Spurs in your list of team makes your value higher, because no one wants the good players there. That doesn’t mean the player really wants to go there, but it will help him get better deals when you see big teams going after you.
grego21 - December 12, 2011
If they aren’t being stubborn they aren’t trying hard enough IMO. If all you need is a big to make a run while you still have the greatest power forward to play the game, you make it happen period!
spurlover - December 12, 2011 via mobile
That’s not far to say either. Spurs could be one of the hardest working teams out there. Spurs have a rep though.
They tend to be older, they have a coach who doesn’t accept BS. You have to play hard, you have to play D. The coach isn’t above sitting you, no matter who you are. Your play time isn’t guaranteed.
Most other destinations guarantee playtime and more money (when available). Spurs also don’t offer a high potential for championships compared to a few years ago.
grego21 - December 12, 2011
True true but it’s almost always been that way for us. Dallas is always the trendier team to be on yet how many chips do they have and how many do we. We are always going to be to old or too boring. We know being Spurs fans that we don’t get the respect we should but that shouldn’t be an excuse for the FO to not get it done. As good and respected as our FO is there is no reason for them not to bring a decent big to SA
spurlover - December 12, 2011 via mobile
Dallas has a history of willing to pay for players. They have that do whatever it costs attitude for the most part. As evident by them (aside from last year), they’ve been pretty flexible to the type of style of play and a tad bone-headedness/stupidity.
And it reappears with the current cast. They lost one of their best players in Chandler and replaced him with “names” who are mostly past their prime. Dallas won’t be as good this year. They’ll win games, but guys like Chandler or more valuable than names like half player, half effort.
Well, Spurs play a boring style, but that’s beyond the point. They are also not as strong as they once were. Battier likely would consider the Spurs if Duncan was in his prime, for instance. Hill didn’t want to move his family.
Caron Butler, won his championship (even though he didn’t earn it), and wants play time/money.
Decent bigs are the hardest player to attain. There aren’t many. Even the ones that have been the talk of boards aren’t that great.
Deandre Jordan is athletic and “potential.” He’s an expensive version of that. Kaman is overpaid and has been often injured recently. He can’t be had without moving a lot of contracts, but obviously, Clippers want youth/picks for that.
Marc Gasol is going back to the Grizz. Lakers moved Odom for a decent sized trade exception (Dallas also is a willing team to eat up huge salaries and move talent). Foster stayed with Indy.
Who really is out there? All the names in deals have been 2/3s + the crazy CP3/LAL/Houston deal.
Spurs need to get bigger, but it’s tough, especially when there are very few out there. Perhaps the Spurs could get a decent big, but then it might cost them some of their extended core/important young guys.
grego21 - December 13, 2011
Don’t get me wrong though, I do feel the Spurs FO has made mistakes and it has cost them in the later years. However, at the moment, in present time, there’s not much out there. It’s hard to say they are guilty when there isn’t even a lot to be guilty of.
grego21 - December 13, 2011
Grego21 as always you make great points. Your right, but the FO has pulled off miracles before… so I don’t think it’s to much to ask for one more… as you know we really could use one.
spurlover - December 13, 2011 via mobile
If you have vodoo magic to put Duncan back in his prime, I’m willing to pay!
grego21 - December 13, 2011
I would settle for a Will Purdue. A Will Purdue type shouldn’t take voodoo to make happen. I mean I know it ain’t going to be easy to get a big but that’s why the FO gets paid for. To supply our head coach with the players he needs and he goes and trys to win.
spurlover - December 13, 2011 via mobile
Wow the physical traits are eerily similar. When I first read this from you I thought no way, but you might be right. This might be what the FO is thinking. I still would rather see Leonard play SF.
LasEspuelas - December 12, 2011
I think if he develops a perimeter-based offensive game, he could make a great starting 3. Right now, he could be better suited playing PF, at least some of the time, especially considering the current wing-heavy roster. Ideally, he would develop into an evolutionary Mbah a Moute: A guy who can guard multiple positions and has enough of an offensive game to create mismatches on that side of the ball.
Edg5 - December 14, 2011
He’s going to have to become a combo forward to fit in best with the Spurs, I figure. That’ll get him the most minutes in the game.
grego21 - December 14, 2011
I believe you’re correct, but ever since this FanPost, I’ve been wondering whether during this season, he will get more minutes as the PF, or as the SF of the linuep throughout this upcoming season. What are some PtRockers opinions and why?
the little o - December 15, 2011
cross out one of those seasons. I love redundancy I guess.
the little o - December 15, 2011
I think it would depend on how the roster rounds out and how Blair has improved or digressed further. Additionally, if RJ does well/doesn’t do as well. I think this will help play into the situation.
If he plays as everyone hopes for, they would likely want to keep him on the floor and experiment with things. Pop does like small ball after all (since the team doesn’t have much big).
grego21 - December 15, 2011
I was thinking somewhere in the < PF (more than 50% of his time as the PF) or < SF (more than 50% of his time as the SF) type of response, one in terms of percentages.
the little o - December 15, 2011
Oh gosh… 30% PF, 90% SF!! I know my maths!!
grego21 - December 15, 2011
I believe that you do. But I also believe that it will be much closer to a half half split if one factors in garbage time.
the little o - December 15, 2011
I think it depends on whether the roster stays the same or not. If there’s a trade, who knows what the rotation could end up being.
Once Neal is healthy, I think there is a good chance that Leonard will spend half the time at the 4, considering Anderson would get more minutes at the 3.
Edg5 - December 15, 2011
Yep, everything is up in the air until we know what’s finalized with McDyess (if there’s a trade) and what not. I doubt RJ is cut since most SFs are swiped up now.
I do think Manu will see less minutes which will give way to more 2 guard time for a Anderson/Neal/Green (possibly?)
If Pop somehow went with TD/Splitter in the starting lineup, it probably would be a good idea if Manu was paired with Blair though. Although, TJ Ford does have some decent passing skills.
grego21 - December 15, 2011
I’d think if McDyess were planning to play this year we would have already heard about it, so I expect the Spurs are working on a trade that includes him prior to his guaranty taking effect. They also have to make up their mind on amnesty within the next day or so. I’m thinking they may wind up keeping RJ, but bringing in another big. If that’s the case, Leonard will get the majority of his time at SF while playing PF only in small ball. The amount of time he’d do that in small ball would depend on how mobile any additional pickup is.
Alamo - December 15, 2011
I could see dice making a last second announcement that he will go ahead and play. Im not sure thats what I want to see though…
alamobro - December 15, 2011
I gotta say that I don’t expect that.
I’m thinking that if he’s not in camp, then he’s really decided to retire.
J.R. Wilco - December 15, 2011
The deadline for Dice is the 17th. We’ll know very shortly.
grego21 - December 15, 2011
Theres no possible way he could come on board later than that?
alamobro - December 15, 2011
The deadline has to do with the second half of his contract becoming guaranteed whether he plays or not. I suppose they could still trade him after that, but it would cost a couple of million dollars extra if a team were to cut him. There wouldn’t seem to be any sort of deadline for him to join the team, though I’d think if he wanted to play he’d be in camp. If the Spurs don’t trade or retire him before the deadline it might mean he is coming back as the Spurs would be paying him that much extra.
Alamo - December 16, 2011
What Alamo said. It has more to do with Spurs having their own internal deadline for paying him and also deciding what to do with him. I think if he was willing to play they’d keep him. Otherwise, they’ll likely move him to hopefully benefit from that.
grego21 - December 16, 2011
extra small ball!
i luv this site - December 12, 2011
We call that Microbial Ball.™
DrumsInTheDeep - December 12, 2011
In some ways, it m ight get bigger if Anderson/Green/Butler play more. They’d replace Hill at the 2 or 3 position.
grego21 - December 12, 2011
I agree that Kawhi has the potential to be versatile, but given what happened to us last year in a playoff series against a division rival, it would make more sense to bulk up in the front court. Randolph was able to have the playoff series of his life because we always gave something up with whoever was guarding him. Blair and McDyess lacked height, Duncan lacked quickness, and Bonner lacked the ability to play professional basketball on the defensive end. All told, I think unleashing Tiago earlier would’ve paid dividends and maybe with more playing time this year he can become a bit more of an impact player. I predict, depending on playing time, 12.7 avg. and 7.4 reb for him. That would be great. I’m excited about James Anderson this year. He’s been given the luxury of two rookie seasons, and I think he’ll be a solid backup at the 2 and the 3 if needs be. Also, I hate to say it, but I think I prefer R.J. over Josh Howard. He knows the system, and shot extremely well from three last year. In a shortened season, familiarity is key. With all of the rapid fire roster changes, maybe we’ll be able to start hotter than most and build a bit of cushion. All told, I’m not expecting much. I’ve been a Spurs fan for too long to go an do something like that.
praise rang - December 12, 2011
McDyess is the same height as Randolph (6’9"), so i don’t think height was the problem for him. i think it was the fact that Randolph was a bit younger and quicker.
RG8907 - December 12, 2011
Randolph is deceptively quick, but yes, it was mostly that McDyess is much younger and Randolph was on a special run.
grego21 - December 12, 2011
randolph also had about 20-25llbs on dice at the time. that sort of gap could be conquerable if dice was still young, and quick but he trailed randolph physically in every way
iheartyourfart - December 13, 2011
How about Okur (might be chopped by Utah), Biedrins, Humphies, or Kirilenko. Send RJ for one of them and a couple of them are Free agents too.
FoldCatOne - December 12, 2011
AK is in Russia and doesn’t look like he’s coming back.
grego21 - December 12, 2011
That’s not what I’ve read. According to Chad Ford, he’s been asking for $40 million over four years. Good luck with that, Andre. And maybe your friend Mikhail will get elected Russia’s President, too. [Voice of Frank Sinatra:] “Fairy tales can come true, it could happen to you, if you’re AK-47…”
Here’s the link.
Tim in Surrey - December 13, 2011
He is being smart. He probably wants to stay in Russia. If you are willing to give him a small fortune, maybe he will reconsider.
LasEspuelas - December 13, 2011
Not sure if anyone will be willing to pay that amount though.
grego21 - December 13, 2011
I would take Okur in a second if he is healthy.
Edg5 - December 14, 2011
Okur??
He is a slightly better version of Bonner. LOL. We need defense and rebounding not more stretch big guys
gunnin' gervin - December 14, 2011
He’s a lot more skilled offensively than Bonner though. Defense is where he’s crap.
silverandblack_davis - December 14, 2011
Just like I stated
a Slightly better version of Bonner. LOL
gunnin' gervin - December 14, 2011
We can get Erazem Lorbek next year I believe. That will give us more scoring punch up front, and Timmy’s contract will be off the books. We can make some bigger moves next year, but that’s the last thing any of us want to hear with an aging core. Good news though right…..
praise rang - December 12, 2011
Should have picked up Julyan Stone. Hes one hell of a defender and a huge PG. whats the word on the young British kid? Not ready yet?
TrooperJoe73 - December 13, 2011 via mobile
Not even close for the Brit.
LasEspuelas - December 13, 2011
Being a gnat on a elephant’s ass does not kill the elephant. You can win games small… but never a championship.
indiancharlie - December 13, 2011
I know Kwame’s suckiness is sometimes overrated… but 7M ???
Ed (dfjmed) - December 13, 2011
Will Biedrens be put on amnesty now?
Alamo - December 13, 2011
I think that’s been rumored.
Ed (dfjmed) - December 13, 2011
No, they amnestied Charlie Bell, aka the guy with the expiring contract and not the center who cannot make a free throw to save his F***ing life
doubleteapot - December 13, 2011
Can’t make a FT? Perfect Spur.
Ed (dfjmed) - December 13, 2011
Nice!
Ayatollah - December 13, 2011
Would you take RJ for Biedrins?
silverandblack_davis - December 13, 2011
That’s a good question. Both have their pros and cons and the final result would likely land somewhere in the same place.
grego21 - December 13, 2011
Biedrins would be a better fit for us than RJ. He even shoots free throws like a Spur.
silverandblack_davis - December 13, 2011
He might help, but I don’t think it would be that great. I think Spurs current wings will be the big difference maker.
grego21 - December 13, 2011
It depends on whether the rookie wings can give the team productive minutes or not. For all the hope we have for Anderson and Leonard they haven’t proven anything yet. RJ plays solid D and hits the 3 at a very high clip.
As for Biedrins, I liked him a lot a couple of years ago. Right now? His lack of consistency would drive me crazy. And everyone here would hate him the second he suits up considering he is as overpaid as RJ.
Edg5 - December 14, 2011
I don’t mean that is guaranteed, but if the Spurs are successful, it’ll be due to their wings.
Personally, I’d prefer to keep RJ this season. I think in a shortened season, there is an advantage to him being on the team. That said, I think the leash should be shorter for games where RJ doesn’t play hard.
grego21 - December 14, 2011
Excellent point.
J.R. Wilco - December 14, 2011
Crap, I forgot about that fanpost on the front office. I can’t remember where I wrote all that! Darn it!
grego21 - December 14, 2011
I WILL NOW THROW MYSELF OFF A BRIDGE
doubleteapot - December 13, 2011
Even though you have several nice ones to choose from, please don’t.
Tim C. - December 13, 2011
Nice.
Bakkie009 - December 13, 2011
Hands of steel!
grego21 - December 13, 2011
Which is worse, having hands of steel or stone?
silverandblack_davis - December 13, 2011
Clamps.
DrumsInTheDeep - December 14, 2011
Kwame
Played good basketball last year and he is a solid defender and rebounder. I do think he got paid too much but he is slightly above suckiness now. LOL
gunnin' gervin - December 14, 2011
Yeah, he made it to like average status
I mean, if he wasn’t drafted at #1, it might be a different path for him, but yeah….
grego21 - December 14, 2011
true
gunnin' gervin - December 14, 2011
Between amnesty and Free Agency I would take any one of the following: Okur (might be amnestied by Utah), Biedrins, Humphies, or Kirilenko. One of them would provide the BIG we need and wouldn’t it be nice if they were willing to take RJ in return. That would save our amnesty for next year.
FoldCatOne - December 13, 2011
Biedrins won’t be amnestied, the Warriors amnestied Charlie Bell
doubleteapot - December 13, 2011
AK ain’t leaving Russia.
grego21 - December 13, 2011
Unless he gets his 4 years, $40 mil.
silverandblack_davis - December 13, 2011
Which means he likely isn’t leaving.
grego21 - December 13, 2011
According to ESPN both Okafor and Bargnani may be Amnesty victims too. There are some Bigs out there that could help us.
FoldCatOne - December 13, 2011
I’d be up for Okur or Okafor. I forget Okur got a ring with Detroit.
Ed (dfjmed) - December 13, 2011
Both Toronto (Bargnani) and New Orleans (Okafor) could use RJ. He is better than anything those teams have a SF. Not sure if trades would work, but we can add in Dices contract to help make it work.
FoldCatOne - December 13, 2011
I’d go for either of those moves, preferably Okafor. RJ could go for Bargnani straight up, contract-wise, but I don’t think Toronto would want that.
Manu ex Machina - December 13, 2011
If Toronto was going to amnesty him, why wouldn’t they rather trade for RJ??? It’s not like they have a load of talent at SF.
FoldCatOne - December 13, 2011
Toronto is not trying to be good this season. They had cap space and their biggest signings were Aaron Gray and Gary Forbes. They are probably tanking the season for a pick and waiting for Valanciunas to make the jump next season. They also have a lot of guys that can play SF (Derozan, Forbes, Johnson, Kleiza, Butler). I would love to have Bargnani and I think he would be a good fit, but I don’t think it’s going to happen.
Edg5 - December 14, 2011
Oh, and the Okafor for RJ & Dice trade does work.
Manu ex Machina - December 13, 2011
I would be on board with this.
CapHill - December 13, 2011
Me three.
silverandblack_davis - December 13, 2011
Count me in.
day_late_friend - December 13, 2011
Stop creating fantasies for this board. Although it would shed some potential salary for NO with Dice, so it does seem reasonable.
grego21 - December 13, 2011
Shoot me right now, some posters on GSOM (the Warriors blog) are talking about how good the Kwame Brown signing was.
doubleteapot - December 13, 2011
I wonder if Mark Jackson is a member of GSoM.
Ed (dfjmed) - December 13, 2011
I get so enraged posting there. I mean, people are talking about how this is a great stopgap measure, forgetting that Kwame Brown had a “career” year last year by being average after sucking for nine years. They also forget that the front office basically ruined the offseason by exclusively going after players like Chandler and Jordan, instead of good team players (and great chemistry guys) like Chuck Hayes, who were nice and affordable.
doubleteapot - December 13, 2011
I keep forgetting that you’re actually a Warriors fan. It’s too bad, double.
Manu ex Machina - December 13, 2011
That’s what miring in mediocrity for so long does to fans.
silverandblack_davis - December 13, 2011
Just be glad it’s not the Spurs signing Kwame.
FoldCatOne - December 13, 2011
doubleteapot is a Warriors fan. That’s why he’s so upset.
Tim C. - December 13, 2011
a Warriors fan with more PtR comments than GSoM comments. Nice!
Ayatollah - December 13, 2011
It’s because you guys have epic game threads. It’s awesome because it’s so off-topic. 10% is about the actual game, 90% of it is fish and bad Korean comics.
doubleteapot - December 13, 2011
I’m not even sure this is a Spurs blog, really. Fo’ realz.
silverandblack_davis - December 13, 2011
Yeah, there’s some kind of hivemind, Borg-like instinct that draws us together and happens to coincide with these “Spurs” games.
Manu ex Machina - December 14, 2011
Who are the Spurs?
Oh, wait. They’re a
futbolsoccer team in England, right?J.R. Wilco - December 14, 2011
If Dahveed insists on Korean comics again this year, I might have to send an assassin to Texas.
CapHill - December 14, 2011
ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
RT @CAGrizBlog: Proposed Mayo-McRoberts deal officially dead, source tells CA. Mayo told this morning that he won’t be traded anywhere
48 minutes ago
Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
Portland, NJ, SA, Washington, Denver also interested in Josh Howard. SA, NJ, Wash and Utah have shown most interest.
48 minutes ago
Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
Josh Howard meeting with Utah right now
50 minutes ago
NBAonESPN The NBA on ESPN
RT @WindhorstESPN: Eddy Curry did not make it thru 2nd practice with Heat, has now sat out 3rd & 4th. This experiment could be short-lived.
54 minutes ago
Ed (dfjmed) - December 13, 2011
Ha! Curry!
LasEspuelas - December 13, 2011
From now on, the “Mama” in You Mama So Fat jokes should be replaced with “Eddy”.
silverandblack_davis - December 13, 2011
Yo Eddy so fat his BMI is measured in acres.
MikeyKosa - December 13, 2011
Jeez, there could not be a bigger joke in the NBA than him right now.
Manu ex Machina - December 14, 2011
Ed (dfjmed) - December 13, 2011
Like Lamar Odom with out the dribbling, shooting and Kardashian stuff
Manuwar - December 13, 2011
Some tidbits from McDonald:
Tim C. - December 13, 2011
Nice. positions 1-4 look solid (I’m counting Anderson and Kawhi as 3’s and Timmy as a 4 when I say that), the 5 spot though is a dark hole of nothingness. If Ian gets good minutes of Dallas I’m going to go FIRE POP all over the place (not really) (no, but seriously) (not really)
Manuwar - December 13, 2011
I’m in agreement – we are fine at the wing position. Let the young’uns play – we need another big.
CapHill - December 13, 2011
And yes, &erson is going to surprise people this year. :)
CapHill - December 13, 2011
I am hopeful :)
LionZion - December 13, 2011
Bonner is solid. Solidly awful.
silverandblack_davis - December 13, 2011
I have a new theory on why giving Bonner anything more than 5 minutes per game is a terrible idea. I mean all the old ones still hold true for me but I’ve got a new one now.
Manuwar - December 13, 2011
Let’s hear it, busta. Is it better than Fred’s FARS?
silverandblack_davis - December 13, 2011
It’s less about minutes and more about who they are playing. That makes the biggest difference.
grego21 - December 13, 2011
It depends. If the Spurs would use him right, they’d gain his strengths and reduce his weaknesses. The problem is Bonner and Blair are “main” big men.
grego21 - December 13, 2011
Bonner should never set foot on the court once the playoffs begin. There is no conceivable way to reduce his weaknesses. Hes good as a regular season body to help win games. Someone else on the roster deserves his minutes, lets hope Anderson gets good enough to take them.
alamobro - December 14, 2011
It’s really team based. Grizz are an example of a team that is just too quick on the outside and too big inside. But then again, Spurs need more big guys, regardless of how much Bonner plays or doesn’t play.
grego21 - December 14, 2011
I still cant believe we lost this game after Bonner did that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSerVBppBgE
LasEspuelas - December 15, 2011
…it was a huge shot. I def thought the Spurs would win after he hit that.
alamobro - December 15, 2011
Damn Battier! Bad defense at the end by the Spurs though.
grego21 - December 15, 2011
STOP MAKING ME THINK ABOUT LAST YEAR!!!
J.R. Wilco - December 15, 2011
You have to know the past to succeed in the future.
grego21 - December 15, 2011
Next thing I know, you’ll be telling me, “It’s not your fault.” And I’ll reply, “I know.”
J.R. Wilco - December 16, 2011
cue dramatic music
tears
hug
grego21 - December 16, 2011
zactly
J.R. Wilco - December 16, 2011
A pithy summary of last season.
quincyscott - December 15, 2011
Unfortunately. At least, Spurs have upgraded defensively at the wings. This helps reduce some of the pressure on Duncan and the bigs (at least help defense wise).
grego21 - December 15, 2011
Yea, but now we need some beef upfront. I hope to hell the Spurs can flip some bodies into a center or PF approaching the quality of Dice.
alamobro - December 15, 2011
Hopefully. But now Spurs in theory could throw the following at the problem:
Manu
RJ
Green
Leonard
Anderson
Before, it was mostly Neal/Hill. Yes, Hill was one of the stronger defenders, but at 6’3, he wasn’t going to keep up with most 3s. And to magnify issues, a lot of times Neal/Hill were in lineups.
At the very least, small ball will at least be bigger overall.
grego21 - December 15, 2011
Thanks for providing me with my new signature.
J.R. Wilco - December 16, 2011
Bigger ball.
alamobro - December 16, 2011
I expected this. Anderson looked good in the first 6. Spurs just didn’t have time to let him fully recover with the team. Combined with Butler and Green, there should be enough competition to keep the performance of the Spurs wings high this year. Too bad Spurs don’t have this problem at the 4 or 5 positions. Perhaps, Bonner and Blair are having a competition to eat sandwiches.
grego21 - December 13, 2011
Anderson seemed ahead of Neal prior to his injury last year. I’ve been wondering if Neal might wind up being included in a trade as an enticement.
Alamo - December 13, 2011
Heck, Pop made the comment that Neal would not even play in some games…. Amazing how all that changed drastically.
If Green looks good and you have Anderson, Neal might be a little bit more expendable. That said, he has the “clutch” touch so it’s tough to give up on that.
grego21 - December 13, 2011
I guess Neal will be missing some time due to his appendectomy so Anderson might be given the opportunity to play at SG at the start of the season behind Manu. If he makes a good showing, I can see the possibility of letting him start and have Manu come off the bench. I had been thinking they might do that with Neal playing with Manu prior to the acquisition of Ford.
Alamo - December 13, 2011
Actually, I think Anderson was in good shape anyway. This gives a better chance for Green to stay on the team, earn real minutes, with Neal out. Hopefully, Pop can rest Manu a bit more.
grego21 - December 13, 2011
Spurs young guns will pleasantly surprise many this shortened season.
Expect plenty of “Oh sh-t!” and “Hells yeah!” to slip past your mouth, whenever &derson and KOANAMI CODE Leonard make a play.
transgojobot - December 13, 2011
Nahce.
alamobro - December 13, 2011
Yes, both of those quotes made me smile.
quincyscott - December 14, 2011
Yea, I wonder what position hes going to play.
alamobro - December 15, 2011
Lakers got Josh McRoberts. Which sucks.
Tim C. - December 13, 2011
Consolation prize for not getting CP3?
grego21 - December 13, 2011
Nah, they had a void in the frontcourt after trading Odom away for having a hissy fit.
Tim C. - December 13, 2011
I was kidding around. It is a definite downgrade, talent wise, but at least won’t be as expensive for them.
Twice now, the OJ Mayo deal didn’t go through, and now it’s completely over…
grego21 - December 13, 2011
Good for Georgie
SleepCrack - December 13, 2011
Decent, but not enough.
silverandblack_davis - December 13, 2011
Sad day.
Luc Richard Mbah a Moute re-signs
grego21 - December 13, 2011
In the words of Holden Caulfield, “He’s a goddamn prince”
Manuwar - December 13, 2011
My personal favorite is “Sleep tight, ya morons!!!”
silverandblack_davis - December 13, 2011
“Where do the ducks go?” is my favorite line/conversation
Manuwar - December 13, 2011
:(
Ayatollah - December 13, 2011
Ed (dfjmed) - December 13, 2011
Tim C. - December 13, 2011
:(
Well that sucks. So it’s Manu/Leonard/Anderson/Green at the wings.
grego21 - December 13, 2011
Did not expect that. Perhaps Josh Howard has been signed to mini-mid level?
wildcat110 - December 13, 2011
Once again, I have absolutely no idea what PATFO’s plan is – the NBA is definitely back.
CapHill - December 13, 2011
Sounds like RJ is pretty much staying (which isn’t a bad thing though – at least this current season).
grego21 - December 13, 2011
He probably needs to spend a year in Europe to get his game back. He played one Eurocup game a couple weeks ago, and looked terrible for two minutes before getting yanked.
Tim C. - December 13, 2011
There you go again – dropping your Euroball knowledge.
CapHill - December 13, 2011
Hey, I spent the better part of an evening trying to find a Latvian box score for that information.
Tim C. - December 13, 2011
Your dedication is a little scary – but much appreciated.
CapHill - December 13, 2011
Wow, pretty soon you’ll have actual contacts all over Europe. Then you’ll achieve world domination?
grego21 - December 13, 2011
Anyone who’s ever played Risk knows that Europe is an incredibly difficult place to start dominating the world from. I recommend South America or Australia.
SpursfanSteve - December 13, 2011
True, good point.
grego21 - December 13, 2011
Did you start here “www.google.lv”?
transgojobot - December 13, 2011
What?? Something’s in the works… I am convinced. And Josh Howard better not be the best of it.
Ed (dfjmed) - December 13, 2011
Or they’ve settled on keeping RJ another year.
Or Butler hasn’t impressed due to not fully recovering or Green/Leonard/Anderson blowing the competition out of the water (although not likely all are doing super great)
grego21 - December 13, 2011
RJ > Howard. And I am started to get used to the idea that nothing remotely major is in the works roster-wise.
SleepCrack - December 13, 2011
And RJ shot a career high from behind the arc last year.
grego21 - December 13, 2011
I’m thinking this bodes well for Green.
SpursfanSteve - December 13, 2011
Possibly. I like Green, but don’t see anyone he’s playing behind that he shouldn’t be playing behind. Still difficult to see him getting minutes, barring the RJ amnesty thing actually happening.
Tim C. - December 13, 2011
One can hope. Worst case scenario, he’s injury insurance, and as well as he played last year I don’t think we’d see a huge drop off in terms of overall production.
SpursfanSteve - December 13, 2011
He is Hail Mary material. He is the guy you put with 3 seconds to go before halftime and the other team has the ball.
LasEspuelas - December 14, 2011
Well, Pop can rest Manu a little bit more if he has the cheap depth. This is one thing that helps. He can also sit RJ if he’s not having a good game. Last year, he was forced to play or Pop went to super small ball with Hill at the 3.
At least now, Spurs wings are bigger.
grego21 - December 13, 2011
Ed (dfjmed) - December 13, 2011
Ed (dfjmed) - December 13, 2011
Also good for Georgie.
SleepCrack - December 13, 2011
He would have been super stoked if Spurs moved Blair for McRoberts!
grego21 - December 13, 2011
“Express Lube Indy Remix” would be the order of the day.
SleepCrack - December 13, 2011
Captain Jack sat out of practice today. I wonder why?
Ed (dfjmed) - December 13, 2011
Ed (dfjmed) - December 13, 2011
Ed (dfjmed) - December 13, 2011
Well that’s f-ed
grego21 - December 13, 2011
Wow, you have a lockout and shorten the season, then raise prices?
doubleteapot - December 13, 2011
The only thing that’ll make them change their minds will be if they lose a lot of subscription base, and then present it as a deal after the fact.
grego21 - December 13, 2011
Fuck them suits. This is BS.
silverandblack_davis - December 13, 2011
I expected nothing less. ::smh::
NBA should have offered LP Broadband FOR FREE. Yes. The league would have had to eat quite a number of dollar signs, but such a move would be a HUGE step forward in repairing their image.
But what does the NAB know about ‘image repair’, anyway?
transgojobot - December 13, 2011
deserves to have an acronym created for it.
J.R. Wilco - December 14, 2011
I really can’t wait to see Leonard play. But I want to see him at the 3.
quincyscott - December 14, 2011
… point line?
J.R. Wilco - December 14, 2011
Haven’t we had this conversation before? I’m getting a funny deja vu feeling.
quincyscott - December 15, 2011
=]
J.R. Wilco - December 16, 2011
Oh snap! You’re like a married couple!!
grego21 - December 16, 2011
I’d say “yes” if he asked me. Quincy is the bomb.
Virtually speaking, of course.
J.R. Wilco - December 16, 2011
So he’s not really the bomb? He’s just the bomb, virtually?
grego21 - December 16, 2011
He’s the absolute bomb.
And I’d agree to be his virtual spouse. Conditionally.
J.R. Wilco - December 17, 2011
But, to clarify, I want to see him play the small forward, positionally.
quincyscott - December 15, 2011
Small ball if no Big PF/C is signed?
Out of the gate and run like hell with Splitter, Leonard, RJ/Howard, Anderson, and Parker. Bring in the the veterans for a spell off the bench to hold some sort of lead then back with the racehorses towards the end of the game. “Desperation Run” that’s the new motto for this season. Could be a lot of fun to see at least.
Titletown99030507d - December 14, 2011
That’s a formula for fun in regular season, done in the postseason.
J.R. Wilco - December 14, 2011
Kris Humphries
How about Kris Humphries anyone? He’s in limbo and not for very long. He could be cheap. Which signing would you rather have Kris Humphries or Josh Howard?
Titletown99030507d - December 14, 2011
I’m guessing the Nets are waiting for the Dwight Howard situation to figure itself out, but they’ll probably re-sign him. They have no PFs on their roster.
Edg5 - December 14, 2011
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